Author Topic: Footwork - long  (Read 4507 times)

Offline TCups

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Footwork - long
« on: February 17, 2009, 01:49:50 PM »
Decided to change my basic position and shoot off a closed hand knuckle rest. I put on a full shooting glove and switched to a knuckle rest w/ the back of the hand facing the target.  This gives me a bit more elevation and I can take a stance that isn't so wide -- I don't have to push the rear foot way back to bring the natural aim point on target.  But now I am shooting everything to the right.

I spent about an hour figuring out what I was doing wrong. Thinking about it carefully, without moving your forearm, shooting off the palm of the right hand (remember I am a lefty when shooting) with the rifle between thumb and forefinger brings the aim point not only lower, but also to the left, versus shooting off the top of the knuckles with the wrist straight. OK, I shifted my position a bit so my feet aimed a bit to the left to compensate, but no joy -- still drifting right with over half the shots, and struggling.  Then I tried something that really helped. I will pass this on to other emerging target shooters.  I have never read about this trick, bur for me, it helped me work it out.

I took a spool of stout cotton cord and stretched a straight line of cord from the floor under the target to where I was standing, took off my shoes and shot in socks. I started paying attention to exactly where my feet were positioned on that line -- I could feel where my rear foot was on the line without having to look down. When shooting with the rifle resting on the palm, my forward foot was angled slightly with my toes out toward the target (an open stance for a golfer).  This also turns the right hip outward a bit, and brings the rest point of the right elbow on my iliac crest to the right -- so shooting off the palm, the rifle is on line.  But off the knuckle rest, turning the right foot and hip out means with right forearm straight and relaxed, the point of rest tends to turn the right also.  By closing my stance and making sure my right foot was exactly square to the cord and my left foot was centered on line, my right hip turns back in and my rest and natural point of aim are back on target.  Who'd of thunk changing the forearm rest position requires changing the position of your feet?  If that was in "The Ways of the Rifle" I must have missed it the first time through.

I read the tips about dry-fire practice -- but I never do it.  If I am going to practice, I feel like a pellet needs to going down range with every trigger pull.  But IMHO, if my body position is exactly right and solid, and relaxed, even when I "pull" a shot, it still ends up in the 9 ring, and more importantly, when I am shooting well, I can see the pellet hit the target.  Maybe it would be different with a lighter rifle and heavier trigger pull. but kinda like Yogi Berra might say, body position is 90% of target shooting; the other half is the trigger pull.

Offline ac12basis

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 02:39:55 PM »
he he...welcome to the bottomless pit

It is not only the feet, but the hips as well.
- You did good with the cord from the target to your shooting position.  Most people just eye-ball the alignment...and it usually ends up wrong.  Once you get it right, take a chalk and mark the floor where your feet should be.  This helps to get back to the correct position after you take a break.
- Unfortunately to align the hips, you really need a 2nd pair of eyes to look at where your hips are aligned to.  It is hard for me to see if my hips are aligned to the target with any accuracy, all I can do is get it somewhat close.
- Now here is the difficult part, with your hips aligned to the target, you then rotate your back so your rifle is aimed at the target.  

The reason I say this is difficult is, your back is doing 3 things;
1) rotating so you can align the rifle on target
2) leaning back so the center of gravity of your upper body + rifle is centered over your lower body
3) bending to the side to accomodate the fact that your hip is tilted
These 3 things strain the lower back, so you have to take care to protect your back.  
The youngsters typically have the strength and flexibility, but they still have to be careful.  Us old-farts have to be careful because our backs are old, less flexible (or NOT flexible) and possibly injured.

I have an injured lower back, but one of my coaches insisted on my rotating my back, to keep the feet and hips aligned to the target.  My other coach let me open my stance, so I would not have to rotate my back.  But then I understood why my coach wanted me to align my feet and hips to the target.  In the open position, feet and hip alignment became a lot more difficult to duplicate shot-to-shot, because you loose the reference point of the target.

Another thing, do NOT lock your knees.  Keep your legs straight, but just short of locking up the knees.
As odd as it sounds, this contributes to wobbles.  Something about locking the knees affects the ability to maintain balance.

re - dry firing
One reason for dry firing is to get the trigger finger to work properly.  
It wasn't until I dry fired a LOT that I understood the "surprise release."  When I was sending a pellet down-range, the commotion of the firing masked what was happening with the trigger.  Without the noise, vibration, splitting attention between the trigger and the target, etc. I could REALLY concentrate on the trigger finger and what was going on down there.  And suddenly "the light bulb went off."  Ah ha!!!

Offline TCups

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 03:17:50 PM »
I believe the wife would "draw the line" at me drawing a line on the bedroom carpet.  No, the cotton cord stays on a spool tied off under the target and I will unroll it when I need it.  I suspect if I were really getting serious, I would have to put on flat soled shoes and shoot off a flat, solid surface, and not the carpet in any case.  I did another scary thing this morning, too.  I got out of the shower and was shaving in front of the mirror when I decided, just for grins, that I would grab the Walther, take a stance, and look in the mirror to see what my position looked like, compared to the young bodies in "The Ways".  Wrong thing to do.  Seeing an overweight, gray haired, 50-some-odd year old man in the mirror wearing only jockey shorts, holding the rifle, back arched and belly sticking out was almost enough to turn me off to the whole sport of target shooting forever.  Never again!

Offline Mick

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RE: Footwork - long
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 09:22:02 PM »
For formal "rigid position" Offhand competition, the "toes on the line at the 11- and 1-o'clock" position and orientation, is the basic method we teach to all our students.   The same thing goes for hip orientation.  However each competitor is shaped somewhat differently ... we're not all peas in a pod !  Sooo ... as a coach, I find that there has to be some minor adjustment in indivuidual techniques.   For example, I find that to correct too much lower body "wobbl;ing" it helps to rotate the rear toe in towards the other ... or possibly even closing the position somewhat by advancing the rear foot several inches.

However ... for sporter type competition, particularly where rapid fire is part of the match ... I tend to discourage all thoughts of formal positions and concentrate more on a "fairly closed and somewhat aggressive" stance with a greater percentage of body weight being on the forward foot and leg ... myself, I tend to shoot such events without any forearm support, but with arm slightly extended.   This does require some degree of strength and control in the upper body.    The attached photo of myself, (shooting the "first ever perfect score Offhand" at Camp Perry on my way to another Gold in Rimfire Sporter), may give you a better idea.  The NRA puts out a very handy little book, for a modest $3 or so, for neophyte shooters which gives somes hints on physical conditioning and other goodies ... I use this as a basic textbook for all our JROTC kids.   One aspect of all positions, Prone, Sitting/Kneeling and Offhand, that must be observed, is that the head should be totally upright laterally, although a very slight forward inclination is permissible.   Never ever bring the head and eyes to the sights .... ALWAYS bring the rifle and sights to the eye ... with some rifles - (not fitted to me !) -   I may find myself holding it with as much as 15 to 20 degrees of cant to achieve this. !!

As a postscript to the latter comments ... assuming that you plan on keeping the rifle for a long time ... don't be afraid to either whittle on - or add to its' contours.   As a boy, my grandfather coach explained it to me  thusly !   "Boy ... you're never going to go into a shoe or tailors' shop and come out wearing boots or pants that don't fit are you ?   The same thing applies to the rifle you're shooting ... it has to "fit" YOU !"  Now this takes experience and time .. think about each alteration very carefully first !!

Mick - The Fuzzy Limey
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Offline tjk

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 11:13:03 PM »
As everyone knows by now, I'm no expert target shooter,...but my method is to keep things as simple as possible,.....stand in a position that's comfortable for you. I try to keep my feet at shoulders width with my right foot at the 11 o'clock position (right shoulder towards to target), and my left foot pointed in the 8 to 9 o'clock position,....I shoot lefty BTW. But this changes slightly shooting different rifles. tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
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Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
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Offline riflejunkie

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 11:58:55 PM »
Mick-The stock on your CZ looks really nice.  I'm jealous!

The saying is, "Position, position, position."  TWOTR refers to NPA as Zero Point and position IS zero point or you have 8's and 9's..  Sight picture/sight alignment, trigger control are all worth 8's and 9's without position.  
TCup, you are bitten.  LOL  You are just postponing the inevitable.  There has to be a match somewhere within driving distance.
It's a common mistake to think that you only need to do live fire practice.  Like Gary points out, and I agree completely, the shot interferes with your ability to see what you are doing.  Last year I read an article/interview with a woman who made the Olympic team and she stated that 80% of her training was dry fire.  While it's true that she also pointed out that she lacked easy access to a range her statement is still a valuable piece of information for anyone who is passionately pursuing the shooting sports.
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Offline Truman

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2009, 12:15:17 AM »
I think I've twisted my knee tjk! I may be wrong but I think somewhere in your post, you've gone from shooting lefty to righty or something! If I have the clock on the floor, with the 12 at the top, (I'm a righty) my left foot closest to the target, I can't get 8 or 9 oclock without doing some serious damage especially with my right shoulder facing the target!  Tell me I've miss understood here please because however I look at it, trying from a lefty style or a righty style, I cant get my feet to point to both 8-9 oclock and 11 oclock! Help


Wait, wait, I've got it!!! The 12 aims at the target! So for a righty, it would be left at 1 oclock, right at 3-4 oclock! I'm with you now fella! I had the 3 facing the target with the 12 infront of my chest, no wonder it felt wierd both left and right handed!
cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.

Offline Mick

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2009, 12:39:08 AM »
Back in the days before many of you were born - (or as we say in the RAF, "Back before Pontious became a Pilate !" ) - when I was still young and gung-ho - I typically "shot" about 150-200 dryfire rounds a night, aiming at an ink-spot taped to the rec room wall !   Then at weekends, after I came to the States, I either shot an actual match or a practice match at the range.   In my prior days in Canada in the mid-50's, the same indoor dry-fire practice took place except there I typically shot in 3 matches per week ... two night-time indoor events and one outdoor prone match.   To be successful one has to practice ... BUT it has to be intelligent, investigative practice.   One tries ideas ... evaluates each .... keeps an extensive log ... gets to know ones' rifle, what works, what doesn't !

as an addition to a piece I wrote earlier ... and be warned... this can get hazardous, so preferably do it with a "coach/buddy" alongside ... try this idea.   This is done with a LOADED rifle, hence the need for a "coach" !!!   Get into position - Prone, Sitting, Kneeling or Offhand depending upon what you're practicing - take aim - then on command from your "coach" close your eyes !   At some point, say 2 to 6 seconds after the "Close Eyes" command he/she will command FIRE !    Repeat this process, say 3-5 times, and then go check out the "Group" you have just shot.   SURPRISE, SURPRISE !   A shooter who really has a good grasp of his/her "Perfect Position" will have put all the shots in a neat group in or around the aiming point.  The ones who "muscled" the rifle to achieve that correct aim will have shot holes scattered all over "you know where" !

On a lighter note, one of the school teams that I coach doesn't have a dedicated range ... they move desks and tables and shoot at portable target boxes in a large classroom.   Should I mention that the Principal banned this practice mode after discovering pellet chips dug out of all the chalkboards on the rear wall ... Sigh !

Mick

Offline tjk

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Re: Footwork - long
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 12:49:26 AM »
Sorry about that Truman,...didn't mean to cause you any physical damage to the knees!!! LOL's Yes, to me 12 o'clock is towards the target, and I shoot from more of a bow-hunters stance with my right shoulder pointed towards the target. I'm sure this is an un-orthadox method of shooting by the pro standards,...but it's worked for me thus far. tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa