Author Topic: Looking for my first Competition target Rifle  (Read 4014 times)

Offline Dave1899

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Looking for my first Competition target Rifle
« on: February 14, 2009, 05:22:51 AM »


What would be a good rifle to get to start competition target shooting with? I've been looking at the Daisy 753 elite. Although it has no adjustments on the stock I'm not sure I'd need all that to start. Looking for some suggestions from you pro's out there



David

David

\"Time makes more converts than reason.\" Thomas Paine  


Offline ac12basis

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parameters?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 12:06:56 PM »
What are your parameters, because the answer will depend on them?
- budget $$$$ (will do no good for me to recommend a $3,000 rifle when your budget is $400)
- sportster or precision
- do you want to shoot 3P (3 position) with it
- power plant; spring or SSP or CO2 or CA/PCP or no-preference
- will you be shooting in competition (serious matches) or for casual fun (including fun matches)
- How big/tall are you (affects rifle size)

Offline Dave1899

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RE: parameters?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 12:18:57 PM »


Quote
ac12basis - 2/14/2009 8:06 PM What are your parameters, because the answer will depend on them? - budget $$$$ (will do no good for me to recommend a $3,000 rifle when your budget is $400) - sportster or precision - do you want to shoot 3P (3 position) with it - power plant; spring or SSP or CO2 or CA/PCP or no-preference - will you be shooting in competition (serious matches) or for casual fun (including fun matches) - How big/tall are you (affects rifle size)
Gary...I'd like to stay in the $400 and under range. At this time a single stroke pump is perfect. I plan on just casual fun for now but would be interested in fun matches as well.



David

David

\"Time makes more converts than reason.\" Thomas Paine  


Offline ac12basis

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Re: Looking for my first Competition target Rifle
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 03:18:19 PM »
OK
First, don't overlook a used match rifle.  That will get you up another level.  And "most" match shooters take VERY good care of their rifles.  Club or school rifles are a crap shoot, some are good condition, others are in disrepair due to lack of caring by the kids, always ask condition.

In your budget you can find
new:
- Daisy 753 (SSP)
- Daisy 887 (co2), I think bulk only
- AR2078A (co2), either 12g cartridge or bulk.  This is the target version of the QB78.  
There is a version that uses a refillable paintball cartridge, but I don't know how badly it would move the CoG forward.

used:
- TAU-200 (co2), either 12g cartridge or bulk.  Comes in either the full size "senior" or smaller "junior" models.
Note the JUNIOR model comes in either wood or lightweight resin stock, so don't assume a wood stock, always ask the seller.
Check out this deal, $150 for a used TAU-200-junior (shorter stock than the full size senior)   http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=20903
- FWB-300, Anschutz LG-380, Diana 75  (spring).  These are the top end of spring match rifles, and were the best in the world before the SSP/CO2/CA rifles.  Good condition will push over your $400 budget.  "Shooter condition" may be about $400 or less.

Notes:
- Daisy x53/88x series.  The stock trigger is LOUSEY, the pull feels gritty.  When they made it, they did not "deburr" the trigger sear.  The fix is simple, but you do have to open up the rifle to fix it.
- co2.  Not an issue if you don't live and shoot in extreme temperatures.  co2 does not behave well in HOT or COLD temperatures, above 50F and below 95F and you should be fine.
- bulk co2.  You MUST load LIQUID co2 into the rifle.  This requires the bulk tank to either be turned upside down or equiped with a siphon.  If you don't have a siphon, do NOT get a tank larger than 10 pounds.  10 pounds is the max size that can be safely turned upside down, w/o using a custom cradle to hold the tank, and even then it is difficult.  If you don't use a siphon, the smaller 5 pound tank is a better choice.
- Things to watch out for with used match rifles
-  -  A cracked pistol grip.  The problem is in airlines baggage handlers and freight companies.  The pistol grip is a very vulnerable part of the stock and if it will break that is where it will break.  The problem occurs when a rifle case is dropped on its end, the mass of the receiver+barrel+forestock will try to move more than the butt of the stock will, and the pistol grip will crack when the butt stock stops moving and the receiver/forestock keeps on moving.  If you buy one used, make sure the seller separates the action from the stock, and pack the 2 parts well.
-  -  Missing sights.  People who scoped these rifles many times lost the rear sights.  Some school/club guns may be missing their sights also.  An "inexpensive" replacement diopter rear sight will cost you about $60, genuine will cost well upwards of $200.  IOW make sure the sights come with the rifle.

Offline ac12basis

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re replacement rear sights
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 08:12:29 AM »
You might email Pyramid to ask them to check the sights and see where they are made.
If "made in Spai"n it is likely a Gamo, and that is good.
If "made in China" pass on that one.

I bought a replacement rear sight from Pyramid.
It is for the Crossman, and mine is actually made in Spain, and thus likely made by Gamo.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=608

The other $60 sights, I have no idea where they are made.
The ones that are "made in China" have a bad reputation on TargetTalk.org for poor quality, as in too much slop in the mechanism.
The Daisy/Avanti sight is made in China.

The Daisy 5899 rear sight is also know for having slop in the mechanism.

The Air Force rear sight had a good review, and looks to be a nice upgrade from the Gamo.  But it is a bit more expensive, and isn't in production yet.

Offline Mick

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RE: parameters?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 11:13:37 AM »
As a coach for JROTC Junior teams that, for one reason or another are stuck with using the Daisy Sporter class target rifles - the 753, 853, 888 and 887 models - all of which basically meet your price-point criteria, I think you  should be aware that their construction quality and reliability is not the greatest.   We spend an awful lot of workshop time both in initial preparation of the rifles to render them reasonably competition capable .... and still more in maintaining that status.

Of the other CMP Sporter class rifles, the Crossman Challenger, although it looks the part, had a fair degree of teething troubles in its' early days and fell from favour fairly rapidly.   I do not know how current models are behaving.   Used or unwanted ones are available on the internet in the $300 range.  The Daisy Avanti, (Originally the re-badged CZ/Air Arms S.200T ) was a very good rifle while it was available.

I don't have my rule book handy, but I believe that the current AA S.200T is now legal, as is the new AirForce Edge model.   The latter should be on the market in mid May according to current scuttlebutt.   Both of these are outside your $400 price range and would also require further exoenditure for a handpump or Scuba tank air  supply.  These restrictions would also apply to the Tau 200 ... another fine little bulk CO2 rifle.

Overall to meet your price requirements, and NOT require an auxiliary Air/CO2 pressure source, my suggestion is to obtain one of the Chinese QB.78/79 CO2 variants, and have it tuned by, say Mike Mellick, or one of the other smiths who specialise in this series of rifle.

Mick - The Fuzzy Limey

Offline riflejunkie

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RE: Looking for my first Competition target Rifle
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 03:05:52 PM »
I have experience with only one Daisy Avanti 853 and mine has been trouble free.  I enjoy it and wouldn't want to get rid of it, but it is very low power and does not leave a clean hole in even the best target paper because of low velocity.  As low as $212 from CMP if you are eligible.
My FWB 300S was $424 including shipping and old as it is it really does shoot one pellet right on top of another.  The trigger is.........well, let's just say you don't go near it unless you want the gun to fire.  Maybe 2 oz's.  It is a side cocking spring piston, but is recoilless.  You can hear it fire, but you don't feel a thing.  Noise level is very low and the gun weighs 11 lbs or so with a nice walnut stock.  About an honest 600 fps and fast enough to cut very clean holes in target paper. It has an accessory rail so you can use a sling and a handstop.  It must have been made in the 1980's and it is so impressive.  Built like a tank.  It's hard to believe it's not a centerfire it is so over built.  Pilkington has them frequently and you mayfind them listed on target talk message board.  
I have read good things about the Air Arms S200T.  It is made by CZ and if their rimfires are any indication, it should be outstanding.  Air Arms puts their name on it and that is another vote of confidence.  It is listed at $675 at Straight Shooters.  
AirForce has a new entry level pcp for a little less than the S200T, and then there is always the CO2 QB2078 or TF79.
Daisy 853 with apertures; FWB 300S with apertures; Mike Melick tuned B-26 and B-40.
Dog - George, RIP

Offline ac12basis

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Re: Looking for my first Competition target Rifle
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 07:42:58 AM »
RJ
Did you oil the seal on the piston, so you don't get an air leak?
I have to chrony mine, as I have no idea what velocity they shoot at, but I get decent holes.

Try putting a piece of cardboard behind your target.
The cardboard will function like a cutting board, letting the wadcutter "punch" a hole.
I do this with copy paper targets, and copy paper will tear (sometime badly) if shot w/o any support behind it.