Open Pistol Questions

[JQR]

My thanks to those that shared comments and suggestions about the targets. Rather than keep the messy thread going I thought I try this.

Assumptions:
1 - That we keep the 5m Open Pistol Match alive
2 - That we want as many participants as are willing to particiapte.
That's it.

Seems that the target is the biggest question.
If you are participating, thinking about joining in or if you've decided not to join in for some reason related to the target please vote.

I've left the poll open for others to add options too.
If you would have voted 'other' please add your option to the poll and show us an example.
I've also left the poll open for folks to vote on multiple options (hopefully that means you that while you can vote more than once, you can't vote for the same thing a hundred times)

Lets get the target settled for this match.
ar5 -4 target and glock 20 bull are exampled below. Both low quality.

[TCups]

Twenty small targets are way to many and way too small for a pistol match.
Even at 5 meters, not many pistol shooters will be stacking pellets in a target, so it makes more sense to shoot multiple shots at a larger target to me.
I would much prefer the second, 5-bull target pistol target, 4 shots at each bull for 20 shots.  That target appears to be properly scaled for pistol shooting at 5 meters

[airgunandy]

I get Photobucket errors when I try to open the files. Is there some other way to get to the 5 bull one?

[CaptGeorge]

NT

[JQR]

airgunandy - 3/30/2009  7:46 PM

I get Photobucket errors when I try to open the files. Is there some other way to get to the 5 bull one?

Odd, it appears on my page on multiple computers but I also get errors when I click on it.

Here's a link.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=172394

I found specs on this somewhere. Personally I'd rather build/print my own, seems like every time I buy a target in a quantity that makes the price/per worth while... I get tired of shooting at it. But I thought this was a good example of something that would work for this match and I'm happy to buid it or something very close.

[TCups]

Did you read the review? About the paper that tears and doesn't cut clean holes?  You will do much better with the Edelmann 5-bull targets.  And they fit Pogo Timmy's pellet traps.

[airgunandy]

That link worked, but it was too small to print out and shoot. There is a five bull target on that Glock site. Would something like that work? Or let's just use the same Gamo5 we use on the other matches?

[TCups]

The Gamo 5 has a white bull with a surrounding black ring.  If you shoot open sights with the bull just touching the top blade, the most common sight picture, then, the background for the front blade and rear notch is black on black and it is very difficult to sight accurately.  Pistol targets, for competition, need to be a black bull with a white background, please.  Same, BTW, for diopter sights.

On the Glock site  in the library, there is a 4-bull target that is a just a little smaller than the 5-bull Gamo target. It has small concentric rings.  It is a better choice IMO.  I suggest 5 shots per pull for a 20-shot match at 5 meters.

http://www.glockfaq.com/targets/bullseye/bullseye_halfinch_4.pdf

Just tested this, and in fact, it is a very good target for 5 meters, giving a sight picture at 5 meters almost exactly like the sight picture of a standard 10 meter pistol bull at 10 meters.  Shooting the IZH-46M at 5 meters, the POI is almost the same as at 10 meters as well.

tec

[JQR]

IT WAS AN EXAMPLE so no I didn't read the reviews. I wouldn't ask anyone to buy target for anything short of a controlled comp

This is 5 min work, I could prob come closer. 5 didn't space well in the software so I ddn't bother, 'd have to pull the image and edit it if we want 5

[TCups]

Using a target already available in the target section of the library makes it pretty simple, too.  No reason why you couldn't shoot 10 shots at 4 targets if we wanted to keep it at 10 shots, else up it to 5 shots per target and make it a 20 shot match.  These print at pretty high resolution on my printer.

I will shoot whatever target is picked, and I certainly appreciate your efforts.  The main thing I would prefer, though, is the convention of a black bull on a white background.  Thanks.

tec

[JQR]

TCups - 3/30/2009  10:43 PM

Using a target already available in the target section of the library makes it pretty simple, too.  No reason why you couldn't shoot 10 shots at 4 targets if we wanted to keep it at 10 shots, else up it to 5 shots per target and make it a 20 shot match.  These print at pretty high resolution on my printer.

I will shoot whatever target is picked, and I certainly appreciate your efforts.  The main thing I would prefer, though, is the convention of a black bull on a white background.  Thanks.

tec

We cross posted - I started my reply before I finished that target. I like the one you put up.  That had had never caught my attention on glockfaq before. Good find and thanks for adding it to the options (I voted for it)

[ac12basis]

For the guys shooting open sights, at 5m you want the black to be approximately 30mm diameter.  This is roughly 50% of the diameter of the 10m NRA/ISSF target.
What JQR has is about right, although the rings could be a little bit bigger.  FYI, here are the ring diameters for the NRA/ISSF 10m AP target and a 50% reduction for 5m
10 ring, @10m = 11.5mm, @5m = 6mm
9 ring, 27.5mm, 14mm
8 ring, 43.5mm, 22mm
7 ring, 59.5mm, 30mm, outer-most black ring
6 ring, 75.5mm, 38mm, inner-most white ring
5 ring, 91.5mm, 46mm
4 ring, 107.5mm, 54mm
3 ring, 123.5mm, 62mm
2 ring, 139.5mm, 70mm
1 ring, 155.5mm, 78mm

When I made my 2 and 6 bull 10m AP target, because of the overlapping targets, I dropped the outer rings keeping on one target only rings 10-5 and on another rings 10-6.  And for the 6 bull target, I cut the 6 targets apart and shot them individually, to reduce distraction and to be similar to the regulation 10m AP target which is 1 target per target sheet.

The bull on the AR5 target is close to 50% of the 10m AP target, but the rings are so much smaller.  I don't think you guys will like that target, because your scores will be much lower, because of the smaller rings.


JQR
I know what you mean, I have a several hundred 10m AP targets.  Got them when I was more active shooting 10m AP.  Should keep me going for a few years  :-)
How do you like the Pellant target program?  The only thing it won't do is print an X-ring for some of the NRA targets.

TC
I have a Umarex/Walther CP-99, my fun AP.  I painted the back of the front sight orange for exactly for the reason you said, the front sight almost disappears against anything dark.  Going to do that to my PPK also, but w the PPK shooting BBs I have to be careful where I shoot, to minimize ricochets.  :-(

[daveshoot]

1. I have not shot these long enough to have valid input. Therefore,here is my input.

2. I like the squares OK. I like only a few shots per position, 2 or 3 per bullwas OK.

3. I have a fondness for this target: http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/rifle_target.pdfbecause it has a gray center with a black crosshair. But the scoring rings are too large for pistol, and as you can see there are only 4 bulls, causing 5 shots per target, in conflict with my previous statement. It's still cool, maybe a shrink down is in order.

4. A practical reason for different target patterns now and then: plinking the same patterns causes wear and lead build-up in the same spots in the old duct seal. I vary between 4, 5, 6, and up target patterns. The pistols don't cause much pitting but the lead build up can be intense. So, to prevent bounce back, especially with wadcutters,I like to mix patterns.

5. I like very clear statements of rules, including distances, heights, and timing between shots. I don't care if anyone else follows them, just like to know standards.

6. I thought about giving up alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, and *_*_*_*_*_* to conquer 10m pistol and go to the Olympics. But, 5m is more fun for now and I have to make new grips for the Izzie. Want to shoot more 10m but it's really cool to have both options. Thanks for putting these up there.

[ac12basis]

Dave
Try making your own with the Pellant target program.  But it won't make the crosshair.
I used it to make special training targets with only 2 rings; 1 black (same size as the black bull) and 1 white (same size as the 1-ring).  I use this target to train to keep all my shots in the black.  Where in the black did not matter, the goal was to have NO shots in the white, you could count the white ring as 0 points, and if you were really nasty outside the white ring could count as -1.  I made both AP and AR versions.

[TCups]

Regarding open pistol sights

Yes, practically speaking, you can shoot 5-meter pistol at 10-meter air rifle targets pretty easily.  The 10-meter bulls are 30 mm.  The 5-meter bulls are 60 mm, I think.
The more I shoot, I hate to say it (gasp!), but the more I prefer pistol matches to air rifle matches.  After I shoot my Walther LGR-U air rifle standing off-hand for 50 or so shots, I am pretty much worn out and sweaty, as much from the mental exertion as the physical, I think.  But I feel like I could pop away the the IZH-46M pistol all day long.  What does it say about one's personality when shooting pistols is more relaxing than shooting rifles?

I think I will start posting 5-M and 10-M pistol scores in the match pistol forum on the Edelmann targets, irrespective of what we decide for the open pistol matches.  And I think I will start shooting at least 25 round matches to get a more consistent average of how I am actually scoring.